Who Are Your Mentors?

About this Episode

The conversation revolves around the importance of mentorship in various aspects of life and career. Dominick compares mentors to influential figures like sports coaches and speaks about his father's guidance in his career choices. Eddy expands on this, likening mentors to a "cheat sheet to life," helping to avoid mistakes, and assisting with connections and encouragement. The discussion emphasizes that mentorship is not only about guiding others but also about having the love and enthusiasm for the subject, sparking curiosity, and engaging others.

Mike's perspective adds depth to the conversation by sharing his personal experiences both as a mentee and a mentor. He highlights the value of mentorship in launching careers, the commonalities in mentoring, and the importance of non-traditional roles. Mike also stresses that mentoring is not just about having more experience but about providing a sounding board and additional perspectives. Ramses agrees that mentors can save time, especially in technical issues like debugging.

Kyle brings an insightful viewpoint on the reciprocal benefits of mentoring. He explains how mentoring others has helped fill gaps in his own knowledge and emphasizes that true understanding of a subject comes from being able to explain it to someone else. Everyone concludes with a universal agreement on the pivotal role mentors play in personal and professional development, growth, and success, highlighting the human elements of curiosity, passion, communication, and the willingness to share and learn.

Transcript:

EDDY: Hello, everyone, and welcome to our podcast session for Acima. My name is Eddy. I've been in the podcast sessions prior. And today, we have Sergio Peralta, Ramses Bateman, and Kyle Archer. Today's topic is actually really interesting. And I'm actually really fascinated to get other people's perspectives. Who are/were your mentors, and how do they help you?

And I can sort of start since I do have kind of an idea of, like, how integral it is to have mentors and applying that logic to anything really, not just engineering as a whole. I think, in general, just having a mentor enforcing, you know, for your mentality and, like, advocating for you. And we can deviate from engineering if we need to or even in development and kind of get the perspective from QA, right? Product managers if we can. We got Kyle, who's from DevOps. I think that'd be kind of cool to get his perspective as well.

I'm probably not the prime example that we can use. But essentially, just speaking for me, before I even decided or even flirted with the idea of becoming a developer, and I was hitting my late 20s, and I didn't know what I wanted to do, right? It was sort of, like, a dead-end job, no room for advancements. And was kind of, like, [inaudible 01:28] my depression personally because, like, I had no room for growth. I started questioning my life decisions.

And then, my older brother would tell me, like, "Hey, man, like, you should consider picking up programming, you know, I think that might be a really good idea for you." And, at that point, he had been developing for, like, 10-plus years. And so, like, he kind of guided me at the beginning, gave me ideas of, like, what to look at. And so, I ended up looking at YouTube videos on, like, tutorials on, like, how to create your own projects and doing online courses.

I didn't really get very far, personally. I kind of hit, like, a dead end. And I was, like, dang, like, it's really hard to stay motivated when you're shifting career paths like that without actually getting paid because it's kind of, like, a second job without pay until you're able to get the skills enough to convince someone to hire you. And so, it went on like that for almost two years of, like, constantly grinding.

And, at one point, I even went to college, right? I decided...I'm, like, I can just do this by myself. I reached out to my older brother, and I'm like, "Hey, man, like, can you give me some resources on what I can do to kind of kickstart, you know, my knowledge?" He sent me, like, Codewars before. And so, I did a few courses on that. And then, I even flirted with the idea of doing a bootcamp. But my biggest thing was just having the discipline to, like, not stay in the same job that I was at.

So, me personally, having a mentor when you're going through that change of the career, all the career choices—it doesn't matter, like, if you're a kid or you're an adult—there are going to be some times where you're confronted with challenges and, like, you have to innovate and write your own solutions, or come up with you own solutions. And that can be kind of daunting at times and a bit overwhelming. And so, having a mentor, you know, provides a lot of that ease of pain. So, like, they can cheer you on any time you're down. Like, they can provide some sort of, like, policy or, like, a guideline to enforce the decisions.

And, you know, they can advocate for you if they are in the same industry as you. You know, they can give you, like, a recommendation eventually, you know, when you feel like you're ready, or even, like, a study buddy. Having a mentor that can sit by you and kind of get you unstuck is super valuable. And that's kind of my origins and my idea behind why having a mentor is really important. And I think that was integral for me to landing my first job in the engineering department.

KYLE: Before we started recording, we were kind of talking a little bit about the different engineering departments. And that's something that's, to me, a little bit interesting in software. I came through, and I did first seven years, I believe, in engineering. I did that in the QA focus. And I had the opportunity in the QA focus to have what I feel like was different sets of mentors. I did have my QA mentors, one, you know, being a co-worker and several bosses that were always out to have my back.

But I had also, like, dev mentors and IT mentors that were willing to show me the ropes in IT, and some that were willing to show me the ropes in the development atmosphere that were, how could we get QA involved in here? How could we get QA coding? You know, one job I was a...they called it a dev QA. I was on the QA team, but I worked directly with the developers. I was on a team of four or more developers. And it was just me as the QA, right? And, of course, not both...they want automated tests. They want API tests. They want that type of thing.

And, you know, some of the time, they have to kind of teach you how to do that coding. So, I had those kind of, you know, mentors. Getting more into the QA automation side of it, I ended up getting a boss, and I'll name-drop him—Nelson. He was a boss that I had while I worked at a company called InsideSales. He ended up seeing something in me that others hadn't and gave me a chance to code. And he brought me on to this monitoring team.

And while on that monitoring team, I feel like between him being a mentor and the political atmosphere, and giving me confidence to be more of a lead on my team and stuff like that; he helped me there. But it also gave me the opportunity to work more with DevOps. And in so, I ended up getting what I would call, you know, DevOps mentors. And there are a few great people that I would still consider mentors, and I appreciate their assistance, you know, getting me going in DevOps.

And so much that where I'm working now at Acima, one of those mentors is here, and I'm working directly with him. It's just interesting. You can look directly for your specific field to find what mentors are available to you. But don't ignore the mentors that are in, you know, other specializations: QA, dev, systems, IT, all that.

EDDY: Kyle, you mentioned something, and I'm just kind of curious. Prior to the monitoring team, that was the first team that you joined. Was that the first team that kind of got you your start in the engineering department?

KYLE: QA is engineering in my mind. It was a job prior that I was more of a manual QA tester. But going up to that, I was more of an automated tester, you know, the Selenium-type tests. But going to the monitoring team that I spoke of directly, there was a bit of Selenium, but we used a framework called Robot Framework that's based in Python. But then, we ended up writing direct Python scripts as well to do some of the testing, which would test, like, phone calls and stuff like that.

EDDY: That's awesome. What's your opinion behind having a mentor? Do you think that's important? Or, rather, can you be successful without having a mentor? And adding on top of that, do you think you would have been successful had you not had a mentor?

KYLE: I'm kind of thinking I could have been successful. But I don't think that I personally would have been near as successful. I don't think that I would have broken into the different specializations very well without somebody kind of showing me the ropes, showing me these are the things you can do and what to do. Because I feel like a lot of the time, without a mentor, you don't really have a direction. You're not...you kind of have an idea of what needs to be done. And a mentor with experience is going to have an idea of how to accomplish it, even if it's old technologies with a new face. What I'm thinking here is Vagrant.

So, at my previous job, I used a tool called Vagrant. So, having somebody to show you how to use Vagrant was really good. And then, you know, when everybody started adopting more of the Docker practices, that was a lot easier to jump on board with. And having the discipline on my own to know when and how I should switch from a tool like Vagrant over to something like Docker, I'm not sure if I would have been aware of that.

EDDY: I agree. I kind of share, like, a similar sentiment. It becomes difficult to understand, you know, new technologies when you're first getting in and, like, to differentiate between, like, what's working, what's new, what's not working, the pain points of either. And, like, having a mentor that's already been through those pains, you know, kind of gives you a shortcut to that success. Actually, that's sort of, like, a cheat code, right? Like, if someone has already gone through that struggle personally and they're willing to share that advice to you so that you don't go through the same struggles, [laughs] I think that's part of a reason why I really enjoy mentors.

SERGIO: I feel like in my time in the university, yeah, I have good ones. I can say a couple of my teachers who were good mentors. But they have tons of teachers. So, I feel like it's a lack. I don't know if it is only my country, but it is something like people really interested in you learn. So, that's a reality about mentors, like, people that they care to you. They care what you're doing. They care what's the route you're taking.

So, since in the past, I had a few contacts or few mentors help. I just try to convert in a mentor when I was a teacher. So, I tried to do this to my students. I tried to do this with the people I was working, even if I have few context, I was trying to do that, and that's because a lack of mentorship in the past. And you made me figure out this. [laughs] And now I understand why because I lack of this.

And it's not funny, but that's made me try many things, just try many languages. I tried many, many stuff until I got a clear path what I wanted to do. So, I guess if I had a mentor in the past that helped me, I guess, right now, I would be in a better position. So that's my perspective. It's sad, but it's not bad at all.

I don't know if this is something from my country, or it's something in the culture in my country that is not allowed people to show you or guide you in some ways, you know. So, that's my input. It's, like, sad, but I just try to do mentorship for others. And even I work with my students on projects and open-source projects as well. So yeah, that's awesome.

EDDY: Sergio, that's kind of interesting. You kind of come from a mentality of being a mentor versus being mentored, right? So, I'm kind of curious to pick your brain on, like, what are the commonalities that you typically find when you bring on a student? What's kind of the struggles that you see when you're mentoring someone?

SERGIO: Most of the people that need mentorship they don't know where is the future. They don't know how these tools, how this stuff will help in the future. The main struggle that I saw, at least in software development, at least in my country, is, like, they don't know so much about software. They don't know so much about tools, and they didn't know how they can do.

And even if they are interested in money, if they're interested in build stuff, probably they lose the path of learning one thing. And probably a good mentor can say, "Hey, you can learn this bunch of things. You can accomplish this path. You know, you can accomplish being a software developer, and you can accomplish being a QA." But they have so few context, and they didn't know what is the right path. That's the thing I notice, at least here. You know, I'm not talking about globally, you know, but that's my opinion.

EDDY: Yeah, that's awesome. That's really cool. I kind of want to deviate a little bit to Ramses because you've kind of played the role on both, I think, from actively mentoring the people in the company people reaching out to you for help. But at the same time, you've been through that pathway as well, where you've reached out, and you've gotten help. So, I'm kind of curious on your perspective on, like, the value behind mentorship.

SERGIO: You mentioned something really important. Right now, I feel like actually I am switching back between roles. Yeah, since I lack some knowledge in the stack, Eddy and many people here is explaining me some stuff. And at the same time, I have experience in areas that I am sharing this knowledge. It's part of the culture of this company, and that's awesome. So, I like it so much.

EDDY: I agree. I can attest to that.

RAMSES: Yeah, I've been on kind of both sides of it, probably more of the receiving mentorship than providing mentorship. But I do tend to find that I like providing mentorship. Mentorship is interesting. I don't know if it's necessarily needed, but I do find that it's very helpful. By yourself, you could figure out how to do things, but you might not necessarily know all of the why, why something is done a certain way. So, having that mentorship or someone to mentor you and kind of walk you through why certain things, you know, happen or how to do certain things, I think, is pretty valuable.

EDDY: Did you have mentors when you first started, and was that integral to your success?

RAMSES: Yes and no. I'd say I had a few mentors. A couple of the senior developers and product managers were pretty integral in providing me the opportunity to expand into different roles and have also been just thrown into essentially a firehose of different situations. But I think with their help; they provided me the tools where I don't necessarily need, you know, that assistance or that, like, continual mentorship. They provided me a good foundation of resources where I can work out the solutions generally by myself. But if I obviously need some sort of assistance, I can still reach out to them or reach out to, you know, my other peers.

EDDY: Yeah. And I think, primarily, most of my mentorship, since I started, has come from Acima for the most part, and I think a lot of us from this call since we've been employed can kind of attest to that, that having mentorship when shifting projects or something that's asked of you that you have no knowledge in is important in order to find success.

Dominick is actually one of the interns for this year at Acima. And I'm actually kind of interested because you kind of have a different perspective than all of us. I don't know of any of us, and please correct me if I'm wrong on the call that have been involved in an internship. So, I'm kind of curious to kind of hear your perspective since you're kind of going to school. And kind of give us your perspective on how important it is for mentorship.

DOMINICK: I personally find that having a mentor is a pivotal part of being able to be successful, at least for me. Like, I know that Ramses had mentioned, you know, you're able to figure out a lot of things by yourself, you know, you might be able to get a task complete. But as to why those things work or why you're completing that task, I think those questions are better answered by somebody who has a little more insight and knowledge compared to what I have, at least. That's why, so far, this, you know, the internship is great.

I really enjoy being here just because it's a little bit different than actually going to, like, school, different classes, and stuff. Because in classes, yeah, you're going to learn about fundamentals and concepts of things. But here, you're actually able to apply those things to a real business environment, which is super awesome. Because just the fact that I'm able to come in every single day and learn something that will be useful for my career in the future is just, like, it's the best. You know, it's a great opportunity, for sure.

But as far as, like, mentors go, yeah, I think it's very important. I've played sports, you know, forever. And some of my most influential figures in my life are coaches that I've had. You know, I had the same coaches for over 12 years, and I still interact and talk to them to this day; you know, they have earned my respect. And, hopefully, I've earned their respect because I guess it is a two-way street. But just having somebody that's more knowledgeable is always a key.

EDDY: I'm actually glad you mentioned sports because this goes to show that, like, mentorship or having a mentor, in general, is key to finding the motivation and getting you unstuck. You mentioned sports, right? And I think that having someone guide you and motivate you to kind of move forward that's the key, right?

DOMINICK: Oh yeah, absolutely. Personally, I'm a fan of...I know tough love is kind of going out of style nowadays, and it's got to be all nice and rainbows and butterflies, but, you know, some constructive criticism, I find, it is a good thing in my opinion.

EDDY: And when you decided to go to school for development, did you have a mentor to sort of guide you on, like, selecting development? And if you did, were they integral on, like, helping you advance as far as you have?

DOMINICK: Yeah. I always had an idea. Like, I really always enjoyed using computers growing up. I was always playing the OG Microsoft Pinball on, you know, your 2005 box computers. That was, like, the greatest thing ever to me. So, I think that formulated my opinions on it. But I always liked using computers.

My father is actually...he recruits software engineers, like, he's a software engineer recruiter. So, having him to kind of motivate me and be, like, hey, like, look at all these people that I'm hiring and the success that they're achieving, and the things that they're able to do because of the career path they took. I was, like, that sounds pretty cool. I think I'm going to have to check it out. So, those two things kind of combined together definitely gave me inspiration for where I am currently.

EDDY: That's awesome. And, I mean, you had a dad as a direct influence who kind of set that path for you, right?

DOMINICK: Absolutely. Yeah.

EDDY: [laughs] So, to some degree, your dad sort of was a mentor.

DOMINICK: Oh, 100%. Yeah. I mean, I always say he is my role model for everything. He's the hardest-working individual I know. So, having him as a mentor is great because it's, like, I want to strive to be just like this man, and I try to do so every day. Yeah.

EDDY: Awesome. So, we got Mike Challis, that joined. Mike, you've been mentored, and you are a mentor. Am I right in that assumption?

MIKE: You're correct in both respects.

EDDY: I'm kind of curious to sort of pick your brain from the origins of being mentored and, like, kind of how far along you've come and be on the other side of that coin to mentor other people.

MIKE: I'll start by just calling one person out. A lot of years ago, I worked with a guy...maybe I'll just call him out. His name was Craig Moon. And he was not just a boss, but he was also a mentor. I came into a job out of school. And I had done some software adjacent work before, and I'd even been doing some part-time work before this job. So, I'm not going to say it was my first software job, but it was the one where I was really working full-time. And it was my first consistent, full-time software job.

And we were in a small office. [laughs] And it was very easy to just kind of turn around and say, "Hey, I've got a question." [laughs] And having him there and as well as my peers who were there, made a tremendous difference in helping me learn the ins and outs of web development. I had been focused, before that, really on more technical. I'd done a lot of kind of graphics development, you know, focused a lot on linear algebra at a really low level, close to the hardware.

Jumping up to web development was a real shift. [laughs] Having somebody who really understood what was going on in web development as well as the language I was working in...I was working with a language that I wasn't that familiar with. And having that kind of anchor to give me a center as I was trying to figure everything out was hugely valuable. I still think back all these years later to this example and want to emulate that.

He focused a lot on databases and starting with your data and thinking about what your data should look like. I still carry that with me, you know, decades later. That mentorship made a huge difference. Later on at that company, [laughs] he ended up leaving, and I ended up being the only developer for a while. We went through some downsizing. There were a lot of times I wished I had his guidance again. [laughs]

And I learned a lot when I was running things alone, and things I probably would not have learned had I been able to lean on a mentor. But on the flip side, I would never have gotten to the point where I could even consider doing that had I not had a mentor to lean on previously. So that kind of answers the first question: a mentor is incredibly valuable for launching your career and has continued to be valuable other times. And I'm going to take that a step further.

And sometimes that mentorship comes and maybe usually even doesn't come from somebody who's far more experienced than you are but rather from a peer who has some insight that you don't have. Being able to have that sounding board is a great source of confidence in being able to move forward without feeling like you're making a misstep because you're blind. That second pair of eyes is just hugely valuable.

And sometimes, we think that we have to know everything to be a mentor, a lot of times, that's not the case. We just have to be able to provide that sounding board, that second pair of eyes, that additional perspective that helps give somebody confidence in what they're doing.

Your second question, I've spent a lot of time mentoring as well, being in the role of a mentor. And I've seen a lot of people go on and be really successful. I think that one of the best things that you can do in your career is take the time to mentor people. It's kind of paying back. And so, I could say, you know, it's just good citizenship. But further than that, for me, it's been the most rewarding part of my career. Being able to help other people become better at what they're doing is, I think, more gratifying than anything I do.

Yeah, there's that huge thrill that you get from solving a nasty bug or from reaching a point where a feature is working that's a little hard to express. Absolutely, that's a wonderful part of software development. But I think that even more rewarding, is helping somebody and letting them get to that point, helping them reach that point where they have that epiphany, whatever hormone it is, maybe dopamine [laughs] that you get when you hit that moment where it works. Being able to see that in somebody else, I feel like, is even more rewarding than when you've accomplished it yourself. So, even if you're selfish, [chuckles] it's worth doing.

But more than that, because most of us are not purely selfish in that respect, you know, we work together as social beings. Investing the time in your peers gives you the community you'd want to be a part of. That is worth doing. I would highly encourage anybody in a position to give some mentorship, when you can, to take a little time and do so, even if it takes you away from getting that project done as quickly as you were going to get it done.

You are expanding your reach. You are helping other people become more effective. As a team, you become more effective when you do so. And it's personally gratifying. It's effective for the company that you're working for. And it's just the nice thing to do. [laughs]

EDDY: So, how long would you say that you've been in the role for mentoring?

MIKE: I'd have to think about the exact year. But there's somebody who's working with us here at Acima that I was a mentor to at his first job about 20 years ago. So, [laughs] I've been doing it for a while.

EDDY: Through those times, right? So, those 20-plus years that you've been a mentor, for someone who's actually listening to this podcast and is seeking or maybe looking for a mentor, what are some commonalities throughout the years that you've found between mentoring other individuals? Maybe you kind of consolidate all of them. I'm sure there's some overlap.

MIKE: There is. One thing that I would say is that people, in general, want to learn, but a lot of times, they are not sure what path they can take. People know that they would like to expand their skills, that they'd like to expand their career. They'd like to do something cool. But they don't know where to step. They don't know what to do next. And so, we kind of follow inertia. [laughs] We stay where we are because we don't see an avenue to go somewhere else.

Something that I've seen repeatedly is that taking some initiative and reaching out to somebody, somebody that may not even be what you traditionally think of as being a peer. Reach out to somebody who's in customer support, for example, or somebody who's sitting at the, you know, the reception desk, or somebody who's doing QA, reaching out to people like that. Just always having an eye open for somebody who's expressed some interest and providing them some opportunities to learn has paid great dividends.

And I'm thinking about specific examples for each of those roles. I'm thinking about somebody who worked at the reception desk who's now a manager for the software department, you know, the engineering department at a company. They went from, you know, working as receptionist to, you know, she's now working, you know, as, you know, leading the entire company's development team. I mentioned somebody in customer service. I've seen somebody from that role go on to be a software architect for a company. Another person from doing customer support, I'm thinking of, that has gone on to have a very successful software career, people from QA who've gone on to be very successful.

So, you know, all of those may be non-traditional roles. And I've mentioned this before on the podcast. I've seen people become very successful. And I try to say this regularly, that you don't have to come from a traditional background necessarily to be successful. You just have to [laughs] be provided the opportunities and then latch on to them and don't let imposter syndrome get to you. Just keep working at it.

Well, a lot of that only happens if you have a mentor who is willing to help you out because, otherwise, you just don't even know where to go. You may have all of the initiative in the world, all of the interest, all the motivation, but it's really hard to use that if you don't even know what to do. Sports analogy has been mentioned. And I think they're very fitting. You can practice your sport all day long, and if you're practicing with bad form, you're not going to get much better. If you have a coach who can teach you how to improve your form, you'll be able to progress in your sport much more quickly because you'll be practicing the right way.

Similarly, a mentor in software development will kind of tell you which way to go. They will be able to point you in the directions you can build your skills in ways that you're likely not going to see on your own. Now, you can listen to a podcast like this or, you know, do some reading. There's things you can do to grow your skills independently. And yes, you absolutely will get better.

But that mentor can really give you the direction that can help you develop your best form and more quickly actualize yourself, step into the places that you should be, rather than making a lot of missteps, rather than down a lot of dead ends because you read something you thought that was valuable, but really, it would have been more effective for you to, you know, put your effort somewhere else. And a mentor can really be that coach, and we have coaches for a reason. [laughs] We don't usually have teams that are self-coached because the coach can really provide a tremendous amount of assistance. A mentor can do the same.

EDDY: So, I sort of, like, see a mentor as, like, a cheat sheet to life, and let me kind of elaborate on that a little bit. A mentor typically means that they have more experience than you, meaning they've gone through the pains, and agony, and bloodshed, and tears, you know, the things that made it complicated for them. And now that they have hindsight, having them being a mentor to you can help you avoid going through that same thing.

So, if you have someone's attention and they're willing to provide mentorship for you, I think you should take it, right? I've spoken to a couple of people who say, "Oh no, I don't need help. I can do it by myself." And I'm like, sure, of course you can. Absolutely. But, like, if someone extends their arm and they're wanting to help you, I think it'd be kind of silly to not consider that as an option.

RAMSES: Yeah, it shaves off tons of time. Debugging an issue yourself for two days, or reach out and get the answer in, like, 20 minutes.

MIKE: And that's not an exaggeration either, right? [laughs] It really is that kind of tenfold or a hundredfold difference in how quickly we can progress.

RAMSES: Oh yeah, definitely.

EDDY: I do kind of want to ask this one thing to anyone who wants to provide some feedback on that. But what are some good characteristics from someone you're looking for when you choose them as a mentor? What makes that person a good mentor? Some of the things, like, that I would see, like, the benefit of having a mentor in the beginnings, right? Or even later on in your career. They've helped me, you know, make connections, you know, with, like, networks between other people who are in the industry, right? So, they can put in a good word for you once they see the value or, like, the progress that otherwise other people wouldn't have seen, right?

Like, mentors have in the past given me, like, encouragement to continue forward. They also, like, have provided, like, accountability for me on, like, "Hey, where are you at? How's your progress going?" et cetera. I always see them on my ringside.

MIKE: I would say, think about your favorite teacher that you ever had. And what are the characteristics that made that teacher your favorite? For me, a lot of that is childlike curiosity and playfulness about the subject. When I say passionate about what their subject is, is they have a passion about it. They have a passion about it because it's fun, right? It's something that they want to be doing. They just love learning. That love is contagious.

I think of some of the best teachers I've had. And they were people who really cared about the subject because they say it sparks joy [laughs] [inaudible 31:56] Marie Kondo [laughs] who said that. Find the thing that sparks joy. Well, the teacher found something that they loved learning about, and then they kept doing it and shared it with the people around them and chose to do so.

If you can find somebody who has that love and enthusiasm for their craft, it would be maybe the first thing. And you think, well, what about the rest about, you know, being able to reach out and help you? And all of that is true, but it kind of comes downstream, I think. Somebody who is obviously showing that they love what they're doing is trying to involve you, right? The fact that they are showing it means that they are engaging you socially. If you can see it, it means that they're actually communicating it because somebody could love something in silence, and you'd never know. There are outward signs. They want you to get involved.

Somebody who invites you over, like, "Hey, come look at this," is somebody that you should, I think, immediately start considering as a mentor because there is somebody who has volunteered to show you something. They see something in the world that they like, and they want you to experience it with them. Somebody who wants you to have that shared positive experience is somebody that you can probably trust to want to do that again and is worth showing some vulnerability to and be willing to let them help you out.

EDDY: I agree with everything you said, Mike.

KYLE: One thing that I've kind of thought about as we've gone through this, we've talked a lot about being mentored. And I was thinking about how I wouldn't say I've had very many opportunities to actually mentor individuals but the ones that I have, I've found it to be actually helpful to myself, too. Whenever I've mentored somebody, an individual generally will end up asking questions or seeking insight that I may not have information about or, you know, that I've never really thought about. For me, it's been good because it filled in some of the gaps in my knowledge, I feel like. I would say there, too, if you get a chance to mentor, it's something that will benefit you, as well as whoever you're mentoring.

EDDY: Someone once told me something a while back, and it sort of just stuck with me. It's like, you can't really claim that you understand something unless you can explain it easier to someone else, like, only then can you, like, truly say that you truly understand something.

KYLE: And I feel like that's kind of the path. Generally, when I'm learning something, me personally, maybe others take a different approach, I walk down the happy path. I walk down the needed information. And then I say, okay, well, I've got it; I'm good, you know. When you're teaching somebody, trying to explain it to them, they may not be walking down that same path. They're looking for a different answer. They saw something over in the corner that you never even thought to look at.

EDDY: Agreed. Yeah, like, it helps you instill that topic, like, in your brain further because, like, when you're able to explain something, I feel like it really helps. All right. Well, this was a great session.